housemate and I are sick of smartphone AI and spyware!! looking for cheap, refurbished cellphones from the 00s
- the problem: all models we have found run on 2G, which is rapidly being phased out by all US carriers
- desired features: basic call and text functionality, durability, physical buttons, fits in pocket
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There are some 4G models from Nokia.
It is worth it to note that SMS should not be used for any personal communication. Literally every message you send is stored by the carrier and handed over to anyone that pays them including LEOs, who in the past have used them to incriminate innocent people, and if you live in america, they will use them to justify shooting you apparently…
Not to mention anyone in the area can intercept all messages with some cheap equipment.
Dumb phones are such a draw compared to stupid smart phones, but they don’t have any secure messaging (at least the ones I have looked at)
thank you for the warning
As Admiral Patrick said, KaiOS phones are a viable alternative to traditional smart-phones, and tend to fill a space between a dumb phone and an android phone.
However, a downside of Kai OS is limited application support, which can be a particular downside when it comes to privacy-respecting encrypted texting apps. From what I can see, KaiOS does not offer any options there on their store.
SMS is now a pretty insecure way to communicate due to the infrastructure being compromised. Having access to a reliable encrypted chat application, like Deltachat or Conversations is a big plus for Android phones.
The downside of Android phones is that the OS is controlled by Google, and many manufacturers force bloated software or offer fairly short lifetimes for security updates, making the phone insecure to use past the End of Life date.
Personally I would suggest getting a Google Pixel phone, which is ironically the most open to having its OS replaced with a privacy respecting OS like GrapheneOS (which is quite easy to install). GrapheneOS is the only OS that can you can really trust to completely turn off the radio chip when you turn on airplane mode, cutting any and all communication with cell towers (but GPS will continue to function).
This would also give you access to F-droid, which only contains open-source software with no paywalls or malware, and access to the best possible privacy communication apps.
Google Pixel phones offer some of the longest support timelines for security updates, which is 7 years from the date of release. A Pixel 9a, as an example, would lose support 6 years from now in 2032. You could continue to use the phone past that point if you stay offline most of the time and don’t log into any sensitive accounts. If your battery degrades or screen breaks, the phone is popular enough that you will easily be able to replace either of those at a local phone repair shop, keeping it alive for a very long time.
The only downside is Pixel 10 support is coming via alternative methods from standard, as Google stopped shipping the binary blobs to run the hardware. Pixel 9 series may be the last to have truly native Graphene support. Graphene is looking into long-term solutions though, although last I heard they were looking at Qualcomm-based chipsets which is bad news on some level, as they’re a US military contractor.
follow up Q; can Graphene run Signal? I know it’s not the most secure app out there, but it’s what most of my collaborators use
There’s an alternative client for Signal called Molly, that has additional privacy options, is fully open source, and doesn’t use Google for notifications.
Yes, you can get Signal using the Aurora Store, which lets you download and install apps from the Google Play Store without an account.
Alternatively, you can add the Guardian Project repo to F-droid, which AFAIK also has Signal available.
awesome!!! thank you again
To piggy back onto what @ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net has said, it may be worthwhile for you (depending on your threat model) to also add the Molly repo to your f-droid client of choice and install Molly as your Signal client. It’s wholly compatible with signal with some additional security features. However, the more repo sources you add the more risk you’re at for a bad actor taking control of one of those repos. It’s not a question I can answer for you directly, it’s just what I’m doing.
(and I realize now after writing all this that @acockworkorange@mander.xyz already said this)
this is the sort of thorough answer I was hoping for, thank you so so much
I’m replacing my phone with an HMD flip phone. I’m over the apps and the tracking.The specific one I’m getting also has no bluetooth…we’ll see how that goes.
There are some 4g dumb phones but idk of any that don’t suck. It might be possible to put a minimal launcher on a cheap android phone.
BIFL doesn’t exist for phones. A physically indestructible titanium phone from 2015 would be useless today because it would be 3g and those networks are gone. Phones are consumables.
Buy It For Longest Possible Duration, then
Look at the Nokia 2780, Nokia 110, and/or the Nokia 3210.
They’re modern equivalents to their predecessors of yore and run a simple non-smartphone OS (Kai OS) and use VoLTE so are compatible with modern networks. Bonus is they can do things like hotspot.
I was looking at those and similar about a year and a half ago when I wanted to switch to a dumb phone. I ended up compromising with the CAT S22 Flip which is a low-end Android phone in a flip phone form factor. Wasn’t difficult to de-Google and was able to root it. Unfortunately, they’re not made anymore so what’s left is what’s left. They’ve also jumped quite a bit in price since I got mine for $69.99 back in 2024.
I have the HMD variant of Nokia 110 and it calls ambulance on it’s own if I put it into the backpack because the keyboard lock is dogshit (you can still press numbers which are part of emergency numbers like 112, 911 etc. even if the keyboard lock is enganged, this is their way of letting anyone call emergency services without unlocking like on smartphones). It did it twice now, so I switched to HMD 2660 which is a flip phone, so it can’t have its buttons be pressed if it’s folded closed. Literally the emergency team called me back saying they’re about to block my number.
S30+ is a good OS (just buy flip phones, not candy bar form factor due to the kb lock xddd), I’m impressed by the features it has, even though it didn’t strictly need to. I guess it’s because it’s been around forever Nokia could polish it. For example:
- You can pick up a call with 3.5mm jack headphones center button (if your headphones have media controls).
- You can add your own words to the T9 dictionary.
- You can have two separate languages for the T9 dict (one comes from the phone UI language, second from keyboard language).
- You can put the call into the background and use the phone as you speak - this is useful if you call your bank and they ask you for a code send to your phone for verification.
I wish HMD would start selling the charging cradle for HMD 2660 I think almost a a year after release…
HMD will never update your phone after you buy it. HMD 110 4G still has the Facebook app, which when you open it it says “This page is no longer supported” or something. The newer HMD 2660 doesn’t have the app anymore. It just goes to show that they update the software only when releasing a new phone, they don’t provide non-critical updates to previous models.
HMD also dropped the ball with HMD 110 4G because the Unisoc T127 cpu supports hotspot, but they just decided not to implement it.
hell yeah, thank you
FWIW, until I decided on the S22 Flip, the Nokia 2780 was my preferred candidate.
that’s what I was considering
May I point you towards a somewhat recent Pixel (6, 7, 8) so you can replace the OS with GrapheneOS? You can find verified unlocked phones on swappa.com and the process to upgrade the OS is fool proof on GrapheneOS.org.
You’ll get state of the art privacy and a full featured phone.
not interested in downloading apps or connecting to the web, but will look into it, thank you!
There’s plenty of useful offline apps in the F-Droid store, and you don’t need to create an account (I don’t think there’s an option to do so).
oooooh thank you
