This is great! Thanks for setting it up!

I was referring to when you said that you consider all downvotes poisonous.

My point is that if you live your life in a way where you create an excuse to dismiss anyone who disagrees with you, you foreclose on logic, and growth, and really your ability to persuade people too.

I’m still drinking my coffee, so if you’re joking I apologize for not picking that up. But downvotes are critique. No one enjoys critique, but it’s not poisonous. It’s how we learn and grow.

Even if you make your comments in good faith you can still have an opinion people think is misinformed or bad. And if you reject all critique you’re cutting off your own opportunity to learn.

How do you determine which downvotes are mindless and which are considered?

He’s mentioned often what a hyper conscious over thinker he is. Have you seen the scene in The Princess Bride where Wallace Shawn is trying to guess which cup is poisoned? And he speculates what his adversary thinks he’ll think they think he’ll think they think? I think that’s an example how at a certain point, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. When you’re trying to predict other people, logic only goes so far before it just breaks down.

Perhaps EK has considered what you’ve observed. But I think what he says has to be presumed to be through a tremendous filter. Hit him up when he’s on a gummy and a glass of Pinot Noir and I bet he sounds like Carl Sagan or some shit. We can’t really know, because he minds his words carefully.

Anyway, I like to listen to him, but I take everything he says in all that context.

I have thought quite a bit about this.

I remember a week last year where Ezra Klein interviewed Hannah Richie, author of “Not the End of the World”, and Adam Conover interviewed a guest whose name escapes me, but basically was arguing an opposite opinion to Richie. Conover had interviewed Richie only a week or two earlier, and so the podcasts created this fascinating split-screen.

Conover and his guest explored the thesis that we’re in a cataclysmic crisis, and in such a situation we should be ready to shake things up. Call things as they are. Recent climate wins are nowhere near enough and demand MORE.

Meanwhile, Klein and Richie explored the thesis that we’re in a cataclysmic crisis, and in such a situation we need to be very constructive in our guidance. Call things as they are, but don’t create panic. Recent climate wins are evidence that change is possible even if they’re nowhere near enough, so we should celebrate these as we keep negotiating for more.

These four basically agreed on all the basic facts. But whereas Conover and his guest were ready to rumble, Klein and Richie both quietly admitted to one another that they’d largely gone vegan out of recognition that this kind of change was necessary, but neither liked to talk too much about it for fear for being derided as radical or preachy. I have since joked that Adam Conover seems to be who Ezra Klein would turn into if he drank Dr. Jeckel’s disinhibiting transformation potion.

That’s where I think Klein is. I think he sees the logic in many things, but he’s fundamentally an anxious, data-driving cynic who – perhaps rightly – recognizes that most revolutions fail, and those that succeed have plenty of case studies of producing terribly disappointing outcomes. So he tries to do what he thinks is reasonable.

I think he’s an interesting bellwether for mainstream thought, and could be persuaded further to the left.

I think Malcolm Harris had a very good review of it. I have not read it, but I listen to Ezra Klein enough that I think I know his pitch. I think the book is about 10 years behind the times. I’m glad it was published because it offers an opportunity for examination.

I think Klein is scared of the idea of degrowth, but might come around. I noted that he casually used the term “solarpunk” in an interview about a month ago in a mention of Lina Khan’s belief that we don’t need big tech to advance AI.

I’m more curious about the responses to this book than the book itself.

Oh, that sounds good. Where are you located? I live in Oakland and work for Agilent.

This is a great review. I am disappointed that Klien and his co-author appear to be about 10 years behind the curve, but I appreciate that the conversation is being had, and that books like this lead to reviews like this.

I’d never heard the term “Solar communism”. I appreciate being introduced to that and to the work of David and Peter Schwartzman.

A great read! Thanks for sharing!

Hey, don’t threaten me with a good time ;)

I think that would honestly be great. One of the biggest problems I’ve seen with Democratic messaging in the last 5 years is that they repeat terms and insist that we should champion them - such as democracy - or revile them - such as authoritarianism - without recognizing an obligation to communicate what those words mean to our everyday lives. I want christian nationalists to be put in that situation:

‘You don’t understand! Solarpunk is communism!!!’

‘Well… I heard they want to give everyone food and shelter and education and healthcare for free. And build parks.’

‘Okay, yeah, but didn’t you hear me? It’s COMMUNISM!!’

‘Wait… is that what communism is? Giving me food and shelter for free?’

‘No! I mean, supposedly! But it isn’t! Look, you need to stop saying that you’d like food and shelter to be free and just agree to fear this word because I told you to! Just stop thinking fondly about living outside of capitalism! I mean it!’

I think so too. I am seeing a similar effect in a lot of places.

These are great tips.

I think the solution might be using a bunch of these.

Do you have any advice on speeding up their breakdown? Are there any tools or practices that cause them to shrink in volume faster? I think she’s just trying to manage slipping on walkways and visual effect, and she has a very high volume.

I think making small piles and letting them rot is probably a good idea. I think mulching them and raking them into beds is probably smart. I’ll try stuff and see.

That’s an interesting idea. I’ll add that to stuff to try. Thanks!

I think the question is misformed.

As you point out, it’s circumstantial. It depends on what resources are currently in offer and what unmet need you’re looking to fill.

Are you thinking of starting a marketplace?

What else do you need??

It was genuinely my pleasure.

Awesome! This is an exciting surprise!

I read a preprint of this, and I really loved it. Everyone should check this book out!

I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about this, because over the last year I was writing the world guide for a solarpunk setting to be used with a tabletop RPG or as a writing guide. And while I was working on this, OpenAI came along and put the Turing test out to pasture.

Several existential crises later, the result looked remarkably like I hadn’t thought about it at all: in the game setting, there are robots and they are treated like people. Like Bender on Futurama.

I think @TootSweet@Lemmy.world (love the username, btw!) is absolutely right that our concerns are all largely shaped by the presumption that today, everything someone builds is built to benefit the creator and manipulate the end user. If that isn’t the case, than a convincing android could just be… your neighbor Hassan.

Most machines probably wouldn’t have a reason to pretend to be human. But if one wanted to, that’s basically transorganicism. No disrespect to OP, but if a machine is sentient, trying to restrict it from presenting as organic seems pretty similar to restrictions on trans people using the restroom that matches their presentation.

And if they are trying to deceive you maliciously, well… I currently know everyone I meet is organic, and I already know not to trust all of them.

Yeah. I think there’s a lot she could do with the stories, but I really need more hope right now. I think Parable of the Sower managed to provide just enough of that.

I don’t fault her for being so brutal. It’s honest. Reading both this and Parable of the Sower, I couldn’t help thinking that there are people in Haiti and Palestine for whom these books are just their present reality. I even feel bad that I’m so demoralized, because I know that I need to toughen up. This is what the real world looks like. But I need to have enough composure to be an effective dad and activist, and it takes a balance for me to do that. Too much truth can leave me too drained and despondent to be the force in the world I want to be.

This is cool. When I get a chance, I wanna submit one of these too.