So help me out here. I’ve heard of meshtastic, I’ve seen a few videos on radios, not too much more than that.

I tinker. I’m a “has to many hobbies” hobby collector.

Please, piss off my significant other, and tell me why I should get into this?

Skeleton pruning is a method used on trees to maintain their structure by cutting back all shoots except the main scaffold branches and primary bole, while topping involves cutting off the entire top of a tree. Neither a skeleton prune or topping is going to be appropriate for all trees. It depends on species, context, and management goals. I would describe the prune in the picture as a skeleton prune. And for a Crepe Myrtle, its completely fine. That tree will be fine. They probably won’t have to manage it again for a couple seasons, and when they come back to it in a few years, they can do basically the same prune, and it will probably be just fine.

Its aggressive, and its not pretty for a few months after it happens, but species like Crepe Myrtle, are extremely robust. Its literally why people put them in parking lots. Could you do that do an oak or a redwood? No freaking way. But this isn’t an oak or a redwood. Its a fucking shit big-box store, throw-away, practically plastic Crepe Myrtle. You plant these specifically because you can management his aggressively. I

Your personal experience as an individual arborist doesn’t necessarily map to how people who manage hundreds to thousands of trees need to think about these things. If you are managing a parking lot (or hundreds of parking lots), you need to not drop branches on cars or people. Its a primary consideration of the management goals. Sure they want trees, but if it came down between having trees and getting sued for having even one limb dropping on someones car, they’ll pull the trees in a heartbeat. Extreme pruning, like a skeleton prune, absolutely puts the health of the tree at risk; but that’s sometimes an acceptable risk to take when the alternative is not having trees at all in some environments.

You may have experience but if you were trained incorrectly that doesn’t mean much.

Man you are insufferable.

Yes, but also, species like Crape myrtle can handle it just fine. It lets you get thicker, stronger primary branches, and one of the primary considerations, especially with trees managed in the public right of way, is “will this tree drop a limb on someones head (or dog, or car), and will we be sued for it?”

Crape myrtles are basically decorations for the equivalent of an ecological toilet which is most urban/ suburban environments. They’re used in places almost no other species would survive, specifically because they can handle the abuse. Many managers would rather do a more severe prune, which might kill the tree, but will prevent them from having additional liability. Not all species can handle this kind of aggressive pruning, especially ones not brought into cultivation by humans, and any wound to a tree puts it at risk from disease, but especially species which humanity have taken far outside of the ecological context the evolved in, these species basically require extreme pruning (apples, pears, some cherries and plums, and some citrus). They don’t necessarily self limb effectively, and without management, almost inevitably will rip themselves apart under their own weight. Its a bigger issue in especially windy areas.

backed by ample research.

You keep confusing topping with skeleton pruning. At no point have I argued that trees should be topped. I’m making a specific point, about a specific prune (the skeleton prune, which is NOT a topping), about specific types of trees (street trees selected for durability, and often times selectively bred to a point where they don’t self prune effectively), in a specific context (the places we use those kinds of trees, like parking lots and side walks).

Because I too have extensive experience with street trees, street tree management, and also, evaluating the health of trees. And not just one at a time, but hundreds of thousands at a time. I’ve done projects across the US with Davie Tree, and municipalities across looking at street trees, evaluating their health, and yes, also trying to capture some specifics like primary bole and other variables like height from ground to lowest branch. I literally built the tree dataset this study here, is based on. We mapped every tree, primary bole, and lowest branch height, for every street tree in the entirety of Louisville KY.

Pruning is used to reduce the risk of catastrophic branch loss/ removal of hazard branches, and the skeleton prune slows tree growth down to further establish primary boles and reduce the overall risk of branch loss/ hazard limbs. If we don’t prune street trees, they have the strong potential to become hazard vegetation which then requires significantly more extreme management, like whole tree removal.

I wouldn’t call that an authoritative source, and its clearly got its own bias. I’m not suggesting all trees are well supported by the skeleton prune, but for things like crape myrtles, and specifically, species that are selected for harsh environments, like where you would plant a crape myrtle, are species that not only can survive or even benefit from a skeleton prune, but that you literally can’t manage a tree into “old age” with out the kind of de-limbing that something like a skeleton prune offers in these specific environments.

Trees didn’t evolve to live in parking lots or tiny strips of soil between a sidewalk and the street. We select for species that can survive these extreme conditions. Those species generally can handle/ or even thrive with a skeleton prune. The case in point is the example this post is about, the crape myrtle.

Another example is citrus trees, especially the more heavily cultivated/ more heavily selected varieties. You quite literally need to skeleton prune these trees, maybe every 5-10 years to keep them productive. This is because we’ve taken them far away from whatever evolutionary trajectory they are on and turned them into basically pets. They don’t self prune or self manage effectively.

Misinformation? As in… you are/ were putting out misinformation?

Its not misinformation whatsoever to suggest that skeleton pruning is an important practice, and what you are doing is deceptive. Skeleton pruning isn’t just a regular horticultural practice, but quite literally, hundreds and thousands of species simply will tear themselves apart without regular, extreme pruning.

We’re not talking about native plants in some particular ecological context where… well… plants just die some times. And thats fine.

We’re talking about human planted, human managed trees, completely outside of the ecological context they evolved in.

These are parking lot trees. We’re talking about species that are expected to survive in the equivalent of an ecological toilet. And yeah, they’ll destroy themselves without regular management. That’s how plants work.

it’s not bad for the tree, necessarily. Most horticultural monstrosities have been selected to basically depend on occasional massive prunings to keep themselves from ripping themselves to shreds over the years.

Even very large species can benefit immensely from an extreme prune, which simulates the kinds of massive catastrophic defoliation evens that happen in nature all the time (fires, hurricanes, tornadoes). It gives the fire branches of the tree more time to and get big with less load to bear.

but alternatively, why do you have a problem with the skeleton prune?

all crape myrtles are crap myrtles

It’s a the sliding part and how that impacts where the workpiece/ hands/ force of rotation go. Because you are doing miters, things a going to be a little funky and what fucks people up is the sliding aspect, which granted, is super useful, but the slide is where people lose digits. The additional degree of freedom fucks people up.

The radial arm saw is the same principle with even more degrees of freedom to the movement of the saw. Those were so famously dangerous they don’t even really make them any more.

The thing about a saw where the blade has a very static motion relative to the piece is that it’s very very predictable as to where force is being applied and what’s gonna happen to the piece. Especially in the event of kick back. Start adding in degrees of freedom and it gets less and less predictable. In this way a table saw or skillsaw is actually really safe because the blade relative to the piece is extremely predictable. I’m not scared at all of a table saw or a skillsaw. Just don’t rest the work piece in your knee. A radial arm or sliding miter saw gives me the heeby jeebies.

I mean its not a radial arm saw but there are good reasons to be especially cautious and really “think” about where you and your body are relative to the machine, and what the motion you are about to do is.

Ahh the ol’ stubinator. These things have a long history of being EXTREMELY uh… “finger removal-y”. So uh. be careful.

You have no obligation to respond like I have not obligation to manage you for your response. If you want saccharine sweet ego fluffing responses, go prompt an AI. Being earnest and being honest are more important to me.

I already have lots of knowledge, but I lack a bit behind in terms of experience.

There must be a word in German for this kind of hubris. If not, we should petition for one, because in the age of tiktok and AI slop, people mistaking the sensation of understanding for themselves actually understanding something, is going to be a continuously compounding problem.

Regarding why I chose this kind of system: stability

So what is stable about your current system? Take the moment for some introspection. Is it stable? Or maybe are you assumptions about stability wrong? Are you expecting to permaculture on a balcony garden? Are you expecting too much because you have some misconceptions?

What I see in your pictures are what I see all the time from novice gardeners. 20 kg of compost (shit) in a 5 kg bag.

Plants are in constant competition with one another for resources. Both sunlight, but also root space, and also air (air flow more specifically). Go walk through a natural area and you notice that unless it’s a heavily invaded area, plants spread out. If you have a small area to work with, you are creating the exact kind of environment for the kinds of pest issues you’ve created by doing exactly what you are doing: this is self evident otherwise you wouldn’t be making this post or having these issues.

I also said that I have both. There is lots of white, flaky stuff (probably white flies) and some mites (small webs) as well as the aphids that are more prominently pictured.

I think my prior paragraph outlines why. You are trying to do too much with too little. Fewer plants and more spacing between them will both result in individually healthier plants and fewer disease issues because the diseases have a harder time moving through the system.

The white flakey stuff is probably a scale insect also getting moved around by the ants. Again, manage for the ants and the scale and aphid issues will solve themselves.

And with regards to mites, if you truly have them, burning it all down is often the only solution. It’s probably the best thing to do for you if the issues are as bad as they seem. It’s almost impossible to get rid of spider mites.

Also, why should I be a more competent gardener only because I grow weed?

Because what I’ve found in a few decades of growing is that marijuana growers take their craft very, very seriously. The ones who fail to develop good growing knowledge from reliable sources don’t make it.

However, knowledge in gardening is no replacement for experience, because growing is a fundamentally place based process. There is no knowledge other than experience that can tell you how to work with this particular plant, in this particular place, at this particular time.

And in regard to tone…

You call me the rude one but you are the one slandering the plants and animals who are simply responding to the conditions you created. Take some responsibility.

Here is a small section of my garden, with easily maybe a hundred different species, many native several endangered. No diseases, heavy production (3 species bananas, lemons, limes, yuzu, cacao, vanilla, kalo, lilikoi, rhubarb, eggplant, and more).

!()[https://files.catbox.moe/yoan9e.mp4]

Mixed systems can very much work, but don’t blame plants and animals for situations you create

Bruh you can manage your own tone however you want. No need to tone police others. You want to deliver them a lavender scented rebuttal, you go ahead and do that.

You come in with a thoughtless rant clearly devoid of any introspection or consideration that they may be the source of their own problems, expect some salt and shade.

so okay a lot to unpack here

but let’s keep in mind that “nature” isn’t sleeping beauty, it’s animals and plants all trying to get one over on one another. They don’t give a shit.

Second, like, agriculture isn’t nature. It’s highly managed systems out of any kind of ecological context. So mixing you pot in with nasturtium? Maybe get off of tiktok for gardening advice.

Pick: Do you want to grow plants for human products or do you want a slice of the natural world?

If you want to grow for production, out doors indoors doesn’t matter. The name of the game is sanitation sanitation sanitation. And you can manage that in a mixed system.

Second, your “mites” aren’t mites, they are aphids. I can’t believe I have to explain this to a weed grower. Ants will move aphids around plants, effectively using them as their own form of animal agriculture. So relying on spraying doesn’t solve the primary issue there. You will need to spray to get the superficial stuff under control if you want to, but getting the ants under control is the only real way to control the aphids. The ants are far better at spreading aphids than you are at managing them. Beat the ants and then beat the aphids.

As far as beating the ants. Figure out what species they are first. Plenty ants will die back a bit from a chemical spray, but then come back with a vengeance a few weeks later because stress causes them to make more queens.

What can you do? Take it all as a lesson, take some time to clear you mind about what you want to do, and give it another go after cleaning up the mess. The outdoor pot is prob unrecoverable and will be swaggy after anyways. And it’s not clear why you are growing. Figure out what you want from growing and focus on doing that effectively.

If you want nature, that comes with slugs and wasps and ants. And mixed systems can be effective (my garden has probably a hundred different species). But it takes a long time and a lot of experience to have the knowledge to be able to identify issues early and respond appropriately for each plant in a mixed system.

Looks ready for planting. I think you can probably just take that part in your hand and stick it in some fresh fast draining soils and it will prob re-root in a few weeks.

Can’t say for certain but it looks like typical overwatering is what caused the fungus/ dieback issue.

Probably one of the best live streams on the matter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-V_YnmER0Y

You are validating bad faith criticisms by engaging with them. You give them substance by addressing them. These are the exact kinds of things that the fossil fuel industry has been funding for literally decades to create confusion/ uncertainty around renewables. By engaging with and sharing content like this, you are doing their work for them. By asking and then answering non-issues like this, it validates the idea that there was a problem with renewables to begin with. Content like this is the result of 80 years of fossil fuel company psyops campaigns.

On Thursday, House Democrats will look into what they describe as the oil industry’s decades of disinformation and misrepresentation to delay climate action. They have called executives from Exxon Mobil, BP America, Chevron Corp. and Shell Oil to testify. The meeting, Democrats say, is modeled on a historic hearing more than 25 years ago that held the tobacco industry to account for misleading the public about the harmful effects of smoking.

Two names likely to come up at the hearing are Charles and David Koch, the conservative petrochemical magnates. They have poured millions of dollars into efforts to discredit the science of climate change. The brothers have given over $145 million to climate-change-denying think tanks and advocacy groups between 1997 and 2018. The Kochs were joined in their efforts by Exxon, which has given nearly $37 million over the same time to spread climate misinformation.

A senior Exxon lobbyist in Washington was caught on tape in June describing the company’s campaign to cloud the science. “Did we aggressively fight against some of the science? Yes,” said Keith McCoy in a sting operation by Greenpeace U.K. “Did we hide our science? Absolutely not. Did we join some of these ‘shadow groups’ to work against some of the early efforts? Yes, that’s true. But there’s nothing illegal about that. You know, we were looking out for our investments. We were looking out for our shareholders.”

The primary goal of these campaigns is to create confusion/ uncertainty; to elevate non-issues into concerns: precisely what this content does.

The problem is that it validates the claim to offer a “solution” (it isn’t) to the “problem” (it isn’t). It’s counter productive to validate the claim by offering this retort. It’s also not even the second time I’ve seen this being trotted out. It’s at least the third, maybe fourth.

I’d be more than happy with seeing these things repurposed into something useful. If we’re in a position where windmill blades are littering the landscape because we have a preponderance of cheap/ free/ non polluting energy, that’s a good thing.

improvement is improvement

Yeah I don’t agree with that. It’s a complete distraction and irrelevant, it adds confusion to a ley audience by implying this was something that needed addressing.

We’ve got some real problems; a preponderance of windmill blades sounds like a made up rw talking point: responding to or producing articles like this offers a validation that the counterfactual doesn’t warrant.

It is actually problematic to spend time, effort, and other people’s attention and understanding making weird defensive claims to non issues.